Shirley C. Strum: Echoes of Our Origins: Baboons, Humans, and Nature

Echoes of Our Origins: Baboons, Humans, and Nature — Shirley C. Strum, with Cassandra Phillips — Johns Hopkins University Press — Hardcover — 978-1-4214-5203-6 — 376 pages — $32.95 — September 9, 2025 — ebook edition available.

This book was a fantastic discovery for me. I consider myself fairly well read; I’ve studied anthropology extensively and I even briefly went to graduate school to study biology, but my knowledge of primates is woefully poor. Shirley’s book was a great introduction for me to one part of a much wider field, and got me excited and engaged with baboons, who turn out to be incredibly interesting animals, and of course connect us not only to issues of human evolution, but also historical and modern ecology, issues of human/animal interactions, and human responsibilities in relation to other animals, especially primates.

I feel like I learned more from this book than almost anything I have read in the past year. Shirley Strum’s story of her fifty years studying baboons is completely compelling.

Her baboon story started in 1972, when as a graduate student, Strum traveled to Kenya to study the origins of human aggression by observing baboons. Her earliest discoveries completely changed the scientific study of baboons, and many long-held assumptions about primate behavior.

Living closely with a number of different populations of baboons over the past half century, and closely observing their lives, Strum has learned more than any other human about baboons’ complex strategies of negotiation, collaboration, and resilience. And through her work, Strum has had to deal with an array of challenges – not just within her field itself, but in the changing ecology and landscape of Africa, as more people have taken over former baboon (and many other animals’) territories, creating new forms of human/animal conflicts, and changing the evolution of baboon society itself.

In addition to illustrating the incredibly interesting lives of baboons, Strum’s experiences tell us a great deal about how human science works, and the challenges that we face in trying to deal with the massive effects of the anthropocene on our fellow beings in the world. I know it’s simplistic to say that baboons and other primates have a lot to teach homo sapiens about how to live cooperatively together, but I do think that understanding more about primate life can in fact teach us a great deal about ourselves, if only we can begin to see that we humans are not at the top of a hierarchy that makes us “better than” or “smarter than” our evolutionary cohort.

Echoes of Our Origins combines natural history, adventure, memoir, feminism and like some of the its best antecedents in nature writing, asks us to think about and empathize with the natural world in previously unfamiliar ways.

I hope you enjoy our wide-ranging conversation as much as I did. While it is doubtful that I will ever get to Africa to see baboons in the wild for myself, Echoes has given me an unmatched opportunity to imagine these incredible animals.

I’ve been recommending this book to anyone interested in humanity, ecology, our history and our future.

Dr. Shirley C. Strum is a Professor of Anthropology and a Professor of the Graduate Division, School of Social Sciences, at the University of California, San Diego, and Director of the Uaso Ngiro Baboon Project in Kenya. Her first book was Almost Human: A Journey into the World of Baboons.

More about Dr. Shirley C. Strum here.

Buy the book here.

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Publishing Talks Interviews Thad McIlroy-Future of Publishing

Publishing Talks started as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun talking with people in the book industry about the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

In the past few years, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues in the book business.

I really enjoy the opportunities to find out about the boundless creativity that motivates so many of us in the book business, and I also really enjoy talking to others in the business, who like me, have tried to make sense of it all in some way or another. That’s one of the reasons I have frequently sought out other publishing consultants, gurus, and observers over the years, to talk about various topics in publishing. Sometimes it is about the history of books, but more often during the past almost twenty years of this series, conversations have centered on change and the future of publishing.

And that brings me to Thad McIlroy, a publishing consultant and author whose aptly named website is The Future of Publishing. As you can imagine, Thad and I had a great time together, and I hope you will enjoy hearing what he has to say, especially about emerging technology. Thad is a really smart guy who understands publishing from multiple perspectives.

AI discussions cannot be avoided at this point. My current thinking is that the version of AI we have now (LLMs) is not going to be the AI technology that will eventually take over our world. In the meantime, human creativity is still valued and it would surprise no one if there is a massive backlash against this technology before too long, especially as it is applied to the creative arts. Would love to hear what listeners think, so feel free to comment.

Here’s what Thad sent me as a working bio: “Writing and publishing are in my blood—my father was an author and broadcaster, and Kenneth Grahame (The Wind in the Willows) was my third cousin. I began as a bookseller in Toronto, then founded Virgo Press (1977) and co-founded book distributor Beatty & Church (1979). In 1985, I created what I believe was the first trade book using desktop publishing technology.

Now based in San Francisco, I’m an electronic publishing consultant, and author. I co-founded Publishing Technology Partners and serve as contributing editor at Publishers Weekly, focusing on AI and innovation. My latest book is  (2024, re 2025). I’ve authored dozens of books and articles exploring publishing technology, metadata, and industry transformation.”

Thad’s current interests are focused on AI. Here is a recent post of his on Onix 3 (if you’re not in the book business, this piece may be a bit in the weeds for you, but if you are in the business and care about data, search and findability, this matters – alot.)

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Publishing Talks Interviews Derek Newton/Verify My Writing

Publishing Talks started as a series of conversations I had with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun discussing the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

More recently, I’ve also had conversations with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers, and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues in the book business about their work.

I really enjoy these opportunities to learn about the boundless creativity that motivates so many in the book business. I was approached recently by a PR firm who wanted me to talk to edtech writer Derek Newton about a new project he has undertaken. While my first reaction was to ignore what seemed to be yet another “pitch,” when I read further about the project, my interest was piqued and I decided I should talk to Derek to find out more about his ideas.

Derek Newton has written extensively about education and technology, including contributions to the Atlantic, Washington Post, USA Today, Money Magazine and many others. He’s also a contributing writer at Forbes and founder of the new and very interesting project that we talked about in this episode, Verify My Writing.

Verify My Writing allows writers to get a verified certification that their work is real, authentic, and human. In short, this enables them to certify that their work was not created by AI. The certification can help with submissions and pitches. Verify My Writing also certifies books and articles that have already been published with a “Human-Written” hallmark. And as Derek and I discussed, there other applications for this sort of certification as well. While writers certainly have self-interest in proving to magazines and publishers that their work is original, it seems to me that publishers will also want to verify for themselves when they receive submissions that the work they are reading is wholly or at least substantially original.

Book publishers and magazines with limited editorial resources are now dealing with a tsunami of submissions, with no practical way to determine the originality of the work they are considering for publication.

Given how good some AI-assisted writing can be, and how often AI is inaccurate (or completely wrong), there’s no question that all of us as readers will also appreciate knowing whether what we are reading online is human or machine written. This sort of validation may become a requirement in the not too distant future.

I found this conversation to be stimulating and thought provoking. Derek’s Verify My Writing seems interesting, and compelling in that it comes from a writer whose work experience inspired it.  I hope you find this conversation as stimulating as I did.

Here’s the Verify My Writing website.

If you want to learn more, contact Derek directly: DNewton@VerifyMyWriting.com

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Publishing Talks Interview with Carol Fitzgerald of The Book Report Network

Publishing Talks started as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun talking with people in the book industry about the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

In the past few years, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues in the book business.

The Publishing Talks series of interviews enables me to talk to some really interesting people who have made an impact of all kinds on books and book publishing. Carol Fitzgerald is a good example. She started out working for Conde Nast and then moved into the book business, founding

The Book Report Network (TBRN) at the very beginning of the online universe in 1996. Bookreporter.com and ReadingGroupGuides.com are now gathering places for a large and devoted community of booklovers and TBRN is recognized as an online leader of informed, contemporary book news, reviews and author interviews. With 30 years of constant innovation, Carol has remained deeply engaged with the constantly evolving interaction of book readers, authors and publishers. She is always great to talk to and if you’re not familiar with her sites, you should check them out.

We had a great conversation about a the past, present, and imminent future of the book publishing world. I think you will enjoy this episode of Publishing Talks. Carol is knowledgeable, engaged, and in touch with so much of what matters to the future of books and publishing.

Read Carol’s most recent book reviews here. She is a dedicated reader with incisive views about the books she consumes.

Check out the Book Reporter’s video interviews with authors on YouTube. Very cool.

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Tamara Dean: Shelter and Storm: At Home in the Driftless

Shelter and Storm: At Home in the Driftless – Tamara Dean – University of Minnesota Press – 9781517918569 – Paperback – 224 pages – April 22, 2025 – $19.95 -ebook editions available at lower prices

Books like Shelter and Storm are all too often errantly categorized as “regional,” both by publishers and reviewers alike. That’s a problem, as if you think of this book as being “only” about the Driftless region, or Wisconsin, or even the Midwest as its “region,” too many readers might not be interested enough to read this book. It’s an irony for anyone writing from or about a specific place – it may be that through a deep understanding of a unique place that one can address and communicate the most universal issues of human life and the natural world.

Tamara Dean is a truly gifted writer, and I suspect that she can write well about almost anything. But this book is personal, and it gives her storytelling abilities the opportunity to shine. There are twelve “stories” in this book, really linked chapters that document on multiple levels, the time she spent during a “return to the land” experience not that many years ago in the truly unusual region called The Driftless because the glaciers that extended across this continent managed to miss this part of what is now mostly Wisconsin (and a bit in Iowa). It’s not flat there, but rather consists of steep hills and deep valleys, highly forested with a number of spring-fed streams.

While the stories are about Dean’s life there, she uses her own experiences to illuminate a variety of issues that matter to almost all of us, from climate change as it affects peoples lived lives (especially in farm communities), how people create community and mutuality, survive natural and household disasters, and citizen science (with a special interest in blue-glow fireflies). Dean’s personal experiences are transformative for her, and through her essays, for us as well

Tamara Dean’s Shelter and Storm is reminiscent of the best writing about nature and rural living, including works by Aldo Leopold, Edward Abbey, Wendell Berry and Gary Paul Nabhan. Tamara Dean’s writing will engage those many of us who care deeply about climate change and sustainability, and her stories will make you feel that it is possible and necessary to spend more time not only being in the natural world, but reflecting on what it means now for us in our alienated, disconnected, thoroughly modern world, and how we might forge a way of being that allows us to live better lives and preserve some level of nature still.

I do want to say that this book is one of the best of the many I have read this year. And I truly enjoyed having the opportunity to speak with Tamara about the book and her experiences in the Driftless, a place I now very much want to visit to experience for myself.

Tamara Dean’s essays and stories have been published in magazines including The American Scholar, The Georgia Review, the Guardian, One Story, Orion, and The Progressive. She is also the author of The Human-Powered Home: Choosing Muscles over Motors. She teaches writing independently in various locales.

“It may sound familiar, but Shelter and Storm is an engaging read largely because Dean is a very good writer.”—Big River Magazine

“Tamara Dean’s luminous essay collection paints a thoughtful portrait of the Driftless region of Wisconsin and the struggles it faces due to climate change.”—Shelf Awareness

“The essays collected in Shelter and Storm, grounded in Dean’s experience tending to and rewilding neglected farmland in the Driftless region, are a product of Dean’s lively, curious, meticulous mind, exploring topics as varied as the impacts of climate change, the challenges of sustainable living, brickmaking, prairie tending, and the history of abortion […] At their essence, these essays are informed by awe. They are about what happens when we make space in our lives for deep attention and wonder.”—Craft Magazine

Author website here.

Buy the book at Bookshop.org

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Publishing Talks Interview with John Cheary of John Marshall Media

Publishing Talks began as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun talking with people in the book industry about the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

During the past several years, I’ve talked with a variety of innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling from the past into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers, and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. And I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with longstanding friends and colleagues in the book business.

Whether you’re involved in book publishing or just interested in how the business works, it’s well worth understanding the ins and outs of audiobooks. Some of us can remember when audiobooks existed only on cassette tapes, which required a lot of effort and doubtless kept audiobook listening to a niche audience. With the advent of higher capacity CD’s, and more easily portable listening devices (and cars with factory CD players more frequently available), audiobook sales increased, but their higher cost kept audiobook sales from becoming a significant channel for most books (and the high cost of production prevented many titles from even being made into audiobooks).

In the past decade, the advent of digital audio players and near-universal broadband has changed the audiobook market completely. Audible was and remains the leader in digital audiobook sales, but there are many other outlets for audiobooks, and the market has expanded to become a significant revenue stream for publishers and authors.

John Cheary is the founder and CEO of John Marshall Media. He graduated from Berklee College of Music. Founding his business in 1995, he has grown it to become a leading independent audio production company – perhaps the largest of its kind. He knows more than almost anyone else I can think of about audiobook production and how the audio segment of the book business has evolved.

JMM produces audiobooks for a wide range of publishers, including Penguin Random House, Harper Audio, Google, Amazon, Scholastic, Macmillan, Simon & Schuster, McGraw-Hill, and many more. JMM has twenty one Studios in two countries, over 1,000 Narrators and Voice Actors, and has won five GRAMMY Awards.

It should come as no surprise that the biggest issue in audiobook publishing today is the advent of AI, seen by many as a way to replace more expensive humans with AI-generated narrators.  Naturally, John has strong opinions about this subject—and many others. I think you will agree that what he has to say about AI narrators is likely applicable to other areas of creative business where AI use is being promoted as well.

John has been a friend and sometimes colleague for many years, and I am grateful to him for allowing me to record Writerscast interviews from time to time at JMM’s studio with its outstanding equipment and recording team—including this one.

I’d be surprised if you don’t learn something from this discussion — I certainly did. Please let me know what you think of our conversation.

Here’s a link to the JMM website.

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Jeff Kisseloff: Rewriting Hisstory: A Fifty-Year Journey to Uncover the Truth About Alger Hiss

Rewriting Hisstory: A Fifty-Year Journey to Uncover the Truth About Alger Hiss – Jeff Kisseloff – 9780700638338 – Hardcover – 392 pages – University of Kansas Press – April 19th, 2025 – $34.99 -ebook versions available at lower prices

I’ve known about the Alger Hiss case since I was a kid,  growing up in the early post-McCarthy era. And in my own family we had two close relatives, both writers, who were blacklisted, and many friends of my parents had been blacklisted at some point as well. So it was a milieu that made the Hiss story living history for me well into my adulthood. Hiss never gave up publicly claiming he was innocent of the spying he had been accused of by the infamous Whittaker Chambers, and well into the early seventies, his supporters included public intellectuals who both believed him and publicized the effort to clear his name.

Jeff Kisseloff’s Rewriting Hisstory is a firsthand account of his fifty years investigating the facts of Alger Hiss’s life and travails. He started out researching the story for a college paper, then worked for Hiss and finally was able to determine the truth about the entire Hiss saga. It is truly an amazing memoir, and is never boring. Jeff uncovered troves of original material, including 150,000 pages of mostly unredacted previously unreleased FBI files he sued the FBI to get. He collected many documents from government and library collections around the country. And amazingly, Jeff acquired the typewriter known as Woodstock 230099, that the government claimed was used to type copies of State Department documents that were used as the crucial documentary evidence against Hiss.

If you are not familiar with this part of American history – Alger Hiss was accused by Whittaker Chambers in 1948 of being a secret Communist spy in the 1930s and the subsequent perjury trial against Hiss was a major political event in the early fifties, a key part of the effort to “prove” that communists had infiltrated the federal government during the FDR administration – which was used by right wing figures to both discredit the “liberal” Democrats and to establish the groundwork for the Cold War and an ironically authoritarian approach to keeping democracy free. Hiss was convicted but always proclaimed his innocence until his death. Historians have taken sides and up to now, no one has proved Hiss to have told the truth. Kisseloff’s incredible tenacity brings real clarity to a complicated storyline. Almost in crime novel fashion, Jeff puts together the pieces that enable him name the only people who could have framed Alger Hiss.

As the publisher accurately says “Rewriting Hisstory is a thrilling political page-turner about an accused spy that is itself a work of scholarly espionage, built on decades of painstaking research. This is an iconoclastic work that should rewrite history books.”

Jeff and I had a terrific conversation about his work and I am certain that you will enjoy hearing what he has to say here.

Buy the book from Bookshop.org (and support local bookstores)
Kisseloff’s book website here

“Alger Hiss vs. Whittaker Chambers. It was the most politically explosive trial of the twentieth century. And while many historians believe the case is settled history, now comes Jeff Kisseloff with an indictment against the conventional wisdom. Kisseloff presents meticulous evidence to portray Chambers as a serial fabulist. Die-hard believers in Hiss’s guilt will be outraged. But clearly, they have not had the last word. This book is sure to stir a hornet’s nest of controversy.”–Kai Bird, coauthor of American Prometheus: The Triumph and Tragedy of J. Robert Oppenheimer

Jeff’s bio: Jeff Kisseloff is a former newspaper reporter and editor whose writing has appeared in the New York Times, The Nation, and elsewhere. He is also the author of five books, including Generation on Fire: Voices of Protest from the 1960s–An Oral History, The Box: An Oral History of Television, 1920 to 1961, and You Must Remember This: An Oral History of Manhattan from the 1890s to World War II.

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Nikkya Hargrove: Mama: A Queer Black Woman’s Story of a Family Lost and Found

Mama: A Queer Black Woman’s Story of a Family Lost and Found — Nikkya Hargrove — Algonquin Books — 9781643751580 — Hardcover – 240 pages — October 15, 2024 — $29.00, ebook versions available at lower prices

“The book is deeply moving and shows how one woman managed to differentiate herself from her mom, find queer love, and discover her voice. I loved it.”–Katie Couric Media, “14 Best New Books Out This Fall, According to a Bookfluencer”

I’m fortunate to live in the same mid-sized Connecticut town as Nikkya, where she has founded a much-needed independent bookstore called Obodo Serendipity. Along with her wife and kids, she is working hard to build a literary community for readers of all kinds, especially kids. Her store has  become a place where I like to hang out. Oddly, Connecticut has very few good bookstores, which seems strange for a state with a relatively well educated book reading population. But I suppose that is indicative of the state of books and also of retailing and our culture generally – people don’t seem to spend very much time in communal spaces anymore. That is one good reason to welcome and support a bookstore (and happily I note the success of a very busy tearoom and a locally owned coffee shop as well, suggesting that people really are in search of human connection in reaction to the overwhelming flattening engendered by the internet…but that is a subject for a different episode).

Nikkya is a thoroughly engaging and impressive person. Mama is a remarkably clear eyed and honest memoir about her life. It may be trite to call it uplifting, but it really is an inspiring story. Anytime I feel that things are difficult in my daily life, it is helpful to remind myself of the challenges Nikkya faced and overcame — it’s always a good restorative, and very humbling too.

Nikkya was born very prematurely to a mother whose life had been taken over by drugs, and the fact she even survived her infancy is remarkable. She was raised mostly by other family members, as her mother struggled with drug addiction and the resulting bad life choices. But Nikkya and her mom always maintained their bond. Her mother unexpectedly had another child much later in her life, and then passed away, leaving her infant son without a parent. Nikkya, by then a young adult, made the life-changing decision to take responsibility for raising her half-brother.

Mama is the story of Nikkya’s mother, but it is also the story of Nikkya becoming a mother, finding her soulmate partner, together creating a new and very personal family, with her son, and now her twin daughters. Besides being an incredibly strong, warm-hearted and loving person, Nikkya is also a strong writer who tells her story brilliantly in this book. It is impossible to read this memoir and not be deeply affected and indeed, changed by Nikkya’s life story.

As Sonya Huber says in her blurb about the book: “Hargrove offers a deep and stirring view of the impacts of addiction and the criminal justice system on Black women, offering an account of hope, heartbreak, faith, courage, joy, and the comfort and care of extended and chosen families.”

It is an honor for me to have her as a guest on this podcast, and also to be able to be her friend (and dedicated supporter of her bookstore). And if you buy her book, which I hope you will do from the link below, Bookshop.org will give Odobo Serendipity a part of the proceeds.

Nikkya graduated from Bard College and currently serves as a member of the school’s Board of Governors and chair of the alumni/ae Diversity Committee. She was a LAMBDA Literary Nonfiction Fellow, and has written about adoption, marriage, motherhood, and the prison system for The Washington Post, The Guardian, The New York Times, Scary Mommy, and Shondaland. Nikkya now operates the independent bookstore, Obodo Serendipity Books and lives with her wife and three children in Stratford, Connecticut.

Nikkya’s website.

Buy Mama: A Queer Black Woman’s Story of a Family Lost and Found

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Dennis James Sweeney: How to Submit: Getting Your Writing Published with Literary Magazines and Small Presses

How to Submit: Getting Your Writing Published with Literary Magazines and Small Presses – Dennis James Sweeney – New World Library – Paperback – 9781608689361 – 216 pages – $18.95 – February 25, 2025 – ebook versions available at lower prices

This book is described by its publisher as “A comprehensive guide to getting published and building a literary reputation through small presses and magazines — and taking ownership of your own publishing life.” While I am very familiar with publishing marketing lingo, I think this description, while literally accurate, actually undervalues Sweeney’s book. He does offer us much more than just a “guide to getting published.” By talking to writers as a colleague and exploring his own journey as a writer, he turns what could have been a mechanical self help guide into something much more interesting and engaging.

I’ve been on both sides of the process this book is about – as a writer submitting work for publication and more often as a publisher and editor, combing through submissions of all kinds and qualities. This book provides much more than simply guidance, tools and support for writers. In it, Sweeney personalizes what is so often a depersonalized process, and helps writers see themselves as active agents in a complex ecosystem with many levels and activities. And in many ways, he reveals the process of “submitting” one’s work as an almost spiritual practice, not just a means to an end.

All of the podcast interviews I do are unstructured and informal – I like to start without notes or an agenda and see where the conversation goes. Talking to Dennis was truly a pleasure, and I think we ended up having a wonderfully organic and interesting conversation about the independent literary world, contemporary writing, and the role of the writer in that community. Whether you  are already a published author, or a publisher or magazine that works with author submissions, this book has a great deal to offer you.

Dennis James Sweeney is a writer and teacher. His books have been published by small independent presses, including Autumn House Press, Essay Press, Ricochet Editions, and Stillhouse Press, and his writing has appeared in Ecotone, The Southern Review, Witness, and The New York Times. Sweeney lives, writes, and teaches in Amherst, Massachusetts. Author website here.

But the book here.

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Iris Jamahl Dunkle: Riding Like the Wind: The Life of Sanora Babb

Riding Like the Wind: The Life of Sanora Babb — Iris Jamahl Dunkle — University of California Press — Hardcover — 9780520395442 — 416 pages — $27.95 — October 15, 2024 — ebook versions available at lower prices.

“The new history is coming, if you dig through the archives with a new gaze.”—Iris Jamahl Dunkle

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