Publishing Talks Interviews Thad McIlroy-Future of Publishing

Publishing Talks started as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun talking with people in the book industry about the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

In the past few years, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues in the book business.

I really enjoy the opportunities to find out about the boundless creativity that motivates so many of us in the book business, and I also really enjoy talking to others in the business, who like me, have tried to make sense of it all in some way or another. That’s one of the reasons I have frequently sought out other publishing consultants, gurus, and observers over the years, to talk about various topics in publishing. Sometimes it is about the history of books, but more often during the past almost twenty years of this series, conversations have centered on change and the future of publishing.

And that brings me to Thad McIlroy, a publishing consultant and author whose aptly named website is The Future of Publishing. As you can imagine, Thad and I had a great time together, and I hope you will enjoy hearing what he has to say, especially about emerging technology. Thad is a really smart guy who understands publishing from multiple perspectives.

AI discussions cannot be avoided at this point. My current thinking is that the version of AI we have now (LLMs) is not going to be the AI technology that will eventually take over our world. In the meantime, human creativity is still valued and it would surprise no one if there is a massive backlash against this technology before too long, especially as it is applied to the creative arts. Would love to hear what listeners think, so feel free to comment.

Here’s what Thad sent me as a working bio: “Writing and publishing are in my blood—my father was an author and broadcaster, and Kenneth Grahame (The Wind in the Willows) was my third cousin. I began as a bookseller in Toronto, then founded Virgo Press (1977) and co-founded book distributor Beatty & Church (1979). In 1985, I created what I believe was the first trade book using desktop publishing technology.

Now based in San Francisco, I’m an electronic publishing consultant, and author. I co-founded Publishing Technology Partners and serve as contributing editor at Publishers Weekly, focusing on AI and innovation. My latest book is  (2024, re 2025). I’ve authored dozens of books and articles exploring publishing technology, metadata, and industry transformation.”

Thad’s current interests are focused on AI. Here is a recent post of his on Onix 3 (if you’re not in the book business, this piece may be a bit in the weeds for you, but if you are in the business and care about data, search and findability, this matters – alot.)

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Publishing Talks Interviews Derek Newton/Verify My Writing

Publishing Talks started as a series of conversations I had with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun discussing the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

More recently, I’ve also had conversations with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers, and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues in the book business about their work.

I really enjoy these opportunities to learn about the boundless creativity that motivates so many in the book business. I was approached recently by a PR firm who wanted me to talk to edtech writer Derek Newton about a new project he has undertaken. While my first reaction was to ignore what seemed to be yet another “pitch,” when I read further about the project, my interest was piqued and I decided I should talk to Derek to find out more about his ideas.

Derek Newton has written extensively about education and technology, including contributions to the Atlantic, Washington Post, USA Today, Money Magazine and many others. He’s also a contributing writer at Forbes and founder of the new and very interesting project that we talked about in this episode, Verify My Writing.

Verify My Writing allows writers to get a verified certification that their work is real, authentic, and human. In short, this enables them to certify that their work was not created by AI. The certification can help with submissions and pitches. Verify My Writing also certifies books and articles that have already been published with a “Human-Written” hallmark. And as Derek and I discussed, there other applications for this sort of certification as well. While writers certainly have self-interest in proving to magazines and publishers that their work is original, it seems to me that publishers will also want to verify for themselves when they receive submissions that the work they are reading is wholly or at least substantially original.

Book publishers and magazines with limited editorial resources are now dealing with a tsunami of submissions, with no practical way to determine the originality of the work they are considering for publication.

Given how good some AI-assisted writing can be, and how often AI is inaccurate (or completely wrong), there’s no question that all of us as readers will also appreciate knowing whether what we are reading online is human or machine written. This sort of validation may become a requirement in the not too distant future.

I found this conversation to be stimulating and thought provoking. Derek’s Verify My Writing seems interesting, and compelling in that it comes from a writer whose work experience inspired it.  I hope you find this conversation as stimulating as I did.

Here’s the Verify My Writing website.

If you want to learn more, contact Derek directly: DNewton@VerifyMyWriting.com

 

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Annalee Newitz: Automatic Noodle

Automatic Noodle – Annalee Newitz – Tordotcom – 9781250357465 – Hardcover – 176 pages – August 5, 2025 – $24.99 – ebook versions available at lower prices

Annalee Newitz is one of the best and most original science fiction writers I have read in a long time. I read their last novel, The Future of Another Timeline (it’s brilliant!) and couldn’t wait to read their next book. Automatic Noodle is simultaneously hilariously funny, sneakily political, and highly original. It’s pretty hard to resist and aside from the fact that it is a short book that leaves you wanting much more, it is one of my favorite books I have read in a long time. Newitz takes us into a future that is recognizable, and while it is as scary as any future looking book must be in our dystopian present, while positing that our future includes a bloody and destructive civil war, the book is somehow optmimistic and hopeful.

Automatic Noodle takes place in Annalee’s favorite city, San Francisco, in the near enough future that it is a recognizable place. California has fought a bloody, destructive, technologically advanced civil war to free itself from the United States. In its newfound freedom, robots have limited rights and must struggle to find their way in a new society. If that sounds eerily reminiscent of the 1870s, it’s not accidental. Annalee weaves together a set of wonderfully humane characters, all of whom are seeking to build new identities in a strange new world. It’s a wonderful story that makes you think and also feel. Great fun carrying along some really important ideas about humanity and freedom.

I really enjoyed talking to Annalee and hope you will not only enjoy our conversation, but go out and buy the book at once – then let me know if you like it as much as I do.

Annalee Newitz writes science fiction and nonfiction. They are the nationally bestselling author of the books Four Lost Cities: A Secret History of the Urban Age and Stories Are Weapons: Psychological Warfare and the American Mind, as well as the novels The Terraformers, The Future of Another Timeline (winner of the Sidewise Award), and Autonomous (winner of a Lambda Literary Award). As a science journalist, they are a writer for the New York Times and have a monthly column in New Scientist. They have published in The Washington Post, Slate, Popular Science, Ars Technica, The New Yorker, and The Atlantic, among others. They are also the co-host of the three-time Hugo Award-winning podcast Our Opinions Are Correct.

“This is a story—about building community despite adversity, fighting for your rights and individuality, and creating art that you want to see in the world—that I didn’t know I needed right now. And it was so much fun to read!”—Martha Wells, author of The Murderbot Diaries and Witch King

Author website.

Buy the book.

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Publishing Talks Interview with John Cheary of John Marshall Media

Publishing Talks began as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. It was great fun talking with people in the book industry about the evolution of publishing in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

During the past several years, I’ve talked with a variety of innovators and leaders in independent publishing and bookselling from the past into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me. I have had the pleasure of speaking with visionaries and entrepreneurs, editors, publishers, and others who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. And I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with longstanding friends and colleagues in the book business.

Whether you’re involved in book publishing or just interested in how the business works, it’s well worth understanding the ins and outs of audiobooks. Some of us can remember when audiobooks existed only on cassette tapes, which required a lot of effort and doubtless kept audiobook listening to a niche audience. With the advent of higher capacity CD’s, and more easily portable listening devices (and cars with factory CD players more frequently available), audiobook sales increased, but their higher cost kept audiobook sales from becoming a significant channel for most books (and the high cost of production prevented many titles from even being made into audiobooks).

In the past decade, the advent of digital audio players and near-universal broadband has changed the audiobook market completely. Audible was and remains the leader in digital audiobook sales, but there are many other outlets for audiobooks, and the market has expanded to become a significant revenue stream for publishers and authors.

John Cheary is the founder and CEO of John Marshall Media. He graduated from Berklee College of Music. Founding his business in 1995, he has grown it to become a leading independent audio production company – perhaps the largest of its kind. He knows more than almost anyone else I can think of about audiobook production and how the audio segment of the book business has evolved.

JMM produces audiobooks for a wide range of publishers, including Penguin Random House, Harper Audio, Google, Amazon, Scholastic, Macmillan, Simon & Schuster, McGraw-Hill, and many more. JMM has twenty one Studios in two countries, over 1,000 Narrators and Voice Actors, and has won five GRAMMY Awards.

It should come as no surprise that the biggest issue in audiobook publishing today is the advent of AI, seen by many as a way to replace more expensive humans with AI-generated narrators.  Naturally, John has strong opinions about this subject—and many others. I think you will agree that what he has to say about AI narrators is likely applicable to other areas of creative business where AI use is being promoted as well.

John has been a friend and sometimes colleague for many years, and I am grateful to him for allowing me to record Writerscast interviews from time to time at JMM’s studio with its outstanding equipment and recording team—including this one.

I’d be surprised if you don’t learn something from this discussion — I certainly did. Please let me know what you think of our conversation.

Here’s a link to the JMM website.

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Publishing Talks Interview with Ken Whyte of Sutherland House

I began Publishing Talks a number of years ago as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology. Most of these interviews originally involved the future of publishing, books, and culture, talking with people in the book industry about how publishing is evolving in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

Later this series broadened to include conversations to go beyond the future of publishing. In an effort to document the literary world, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me on many levels. I have gotten to speak with visionaries and entrepreneurs, as well as editors and publishers who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues I have met or worked with during the many years I have been in the book business.

More recently, I’ve been talking to book folks about what is going on in publishing today, quite often about the changes in marketing and promotion that have marked all media industries as social media has overwhelmed traditional media, creating an extremely complex and constantly changing environment.

One thing is certain about publishing – there are no final answers, but there are many really important questions that we should be asking all the time.

I recently had the opportunity to (virtually) meet and talk to Kenneth (Ken) Whyte, founder and president of the Toronto based Sutherland House publishing company. I discovered Ken through his excellent and thoughtful newsletter called SHuSh, where he writes about a wide range of book industry matters as well as people and books he is connected to or has published. Ken started in journalism and magazine writing and publishing, wrote nonfiction books himself, and then started Sutherland House. One might reasonably question why any sane person would start a commercial publishing house in the current troubled media environment, but Sutherland House appears to be successful and is clearly well run and intelligently managed. I thought it would be interesting and valuable to talk to Ken about his thinking about books and publishing. He is an innovator and clearly a smart publisher who has figured out how to sell books.

We talked about a wide range of subjects and concerns that will be of interest to anyone who follows current publishing and media trends. We talked about the current state of Canadian publishing, which is simultaneously similar and very different from the US publishing scene. And we talked as well about many of the challenges and opportunities that exist for publishers and authors in Canada and the USA alike. We talked about AI and its actual uses in publishing, consolidation in retail and how publishers must navigate markets, author income issues, ebooks, book pricing, changes in the overall media landscape, and much more.

From the Sutherland House website:

At Sutherland House, we believe in the power of a distinct aesthetic, and each of our publications reflects the unique essence of our brand. From inception to launch, every title undergoes meticulous market testing to ensure its resonance with our discerning readership. All of our books are simultaneously published in both Canada and the United States, supported by robust sales and distribution channels in both countries. 

Kenneth Whyte was editor-in-chief of Saturday Night Magazine, founding editor of The National Post, editor and publisher of Maclean’s, president of Rogers Publishing, and founding president of Next Issue Canada. He is the author of The Sack of Detroit: General Motors and the End of American Enterprise and The Uncrowned King: The Sensational Rise of Willian Randolph Hearst.

 

 

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Publishing Talks: An Interview with Shouvik Paul of CopyLeaks

Publishing Talks began as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. I’ve spent time talking with people in the book industry about how publishing is evolving in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

Later this series grew to include conversations that go beyond the future of publishing. In an effort to document the literary world, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me on many levels. I have gotten to speak with visionaries and entrepreneurs, as well as editors and publishers who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues I have met over the many years I have been in the book business.

I met Shouvik Paul a number of years ago when he was working for SharedBook, a company for whom I did some consulting work. He is a really smart guy and has been involved in a variety of technology related start ups during his career. Shouvik is currently the Chief Operating Officer of Copyleaks Inc., an award-winning AI-based text analysis company whose primary work is to identify potential plagiarism and paraphrasing across nearly every language, detect AI-generated content, and provide generative AI governance and compliance solutions. For obvious reasons, this kind of technology will be of interest to all kinds of publishers and content owners.

CopyLeaks has been working in AI for years, and now that AI in many different applications will become crucial for the book industry to understand and apply, I thought this would be a great opportunity for me and for Publishing Talks listeners  to learn more about where this is all headed from someone who knows alot more than most of the rest of us.

I think this conversation will spur your thinking in a variety of ways. It certainly has inspired me to learn more about AI and how it can be used, what the risks of using it are, and how we need to think about AI both within the book business and in our overall culture. Don’t be surprised if this changes your outlook on the way AI will affect our business and hopefully it will inspire you as to learn more about it as well. The book industry cannot afford not to recognize how this technology will change our lives in so many ways.

Shouvik lives in Manhattan with his two daughters; he wanted me to note here that they refer to him as “That guy who has to stop and pet every dog that passes by” — which is a pretty great recommendation, in my view.

CopyLeaks.com

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Publishing Talks: Interview with Josh Schwartz of Pubvendo

Publishing Talks began as a series of conversations with book industry professionals and others involved in media and technology, mostly talking about the future of publishing, books, and culture. I’ve spent time talking with people in the book industry about how publishing is evolving in the context of technology, culture, and economics.

Later this series broadened to include conversations that go beyond the future of publishing. In an effort to document the literary world, I’ve talked with a variety of editors, publishers and others who have been innovators and leaders in independent publishing in the past and into the present.

These conversations have been inspirational to me on many levels. I have gotten to speak with visionaries and entrepreneurs, as well as editors and publishers who have influenced and changed contemporary literature and culture. I’ve also had the opportunity to speak with a number of friends and colleagues I have met over the many years I have been in the book business.

Josh Schwartz is someone I met at a Book Expo several years ago (remember trade shows? Book Expo, previously known as the American Booksellers Association was an important social gathering for the book industry for more than 50 years, fostering a sense of community that is now lost). As often was the case at old-fashioned industry gatherings, it was purely a chance connection, as we sat together to eat lunch at the Javits Center one busy afternoon. That meeting is emblematic of how a good trade show can work – a chance meeting with someone that turns into a long term business connection and friendship.

Josh was then just launching his company, Pubvendo to specialize in digital marketing for books, working with authors and publishers of every size and kind. Now that it’s been some years he and his team have been at it, the work puts him in the middle of a very interesting part of the book business. Most of us agree that while publishing is not without challenges, marketing is the hardest thing we do. Every new book that is published is an entirely new product (unless it is part of a series or written by an author with an established brand). Every new book must be thought about and in some way “represented” or “presented” to potential readers, booksellers, librarians, media outlets, all of whom are busy, often overwhelmed with information, and hard pressed to notice any one book over any other. How do we find readers and help them discover our books when they have so many other books and media forms to choose from? That is the challenge of book publishing in the digital era. Data driven online marketing as practiced by Pubvendo and only a few other businesses is one way for publishers and authors to make those crucial connections. And while it might be “inside baseball” for some, this is a subject that most of us in the book business have to think about all the time.

Josh is both the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Pubvendo, which makes him responsible for digital campaign methodology, strategy, and execution. He started in the book business in 2010, working for digital production companies, Aptara and Jouve. He holds a bachelor’s degree in American Literature from George Mason University and a master’s degree from Georgetown University.

Aside from his literary interests, which inform his day-to-day work with publishers and authors, he’s willing and able to engage with a variety of subjects and try to find ways to connect books of all kinds with the right readers – especially the ones who want to buy those books. It is no easy thing to navigate the continuously changeable online universe, but Josh seems better equipped than most to figure it out and at the same time, have some fun and enjoy the ride.

In this conversation, we covered a wide range of topics relating to marketing and publishing – primarily focusing on digital matters but really this is about marketing books in an extremely complex and constantly changing environment. We even talked about AI, the latest and greatest in a series of “new developments” that have faced book publishing over the last twenty years or more.

One thing is certain – there are no final answers, but there are always alot of really important questions.

Pubvendo website.

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